@5

Global IBM management doing their jobs right or wrong. They are creating a vision to lead the market. They will implement social software, project vulcan etc. to create 10 years ahead product lines. They don't (and won't) have an agenda about minor/major improvements in software products.

So the problem should be seen from an other side. Blaming Ed about the absense of effective logging on Notes client or honoring him about multi--threaded replicator seems so wrong to me.

As you said, 'to help future vision' is the center of idea jams in this point. Of course, one may say that 'Lotus makes us to believe that idea jams are important source for product development' and it is right.

@6,

The issue becomes distracted from my point here. There is no goats or foxes here. There are organizations and multiple problems between them.

If you have a grocery store, you don't deal with genetics of seeds. You just sell what you have...

who decides the stubbornness of IBM? who makes the final call that says: we do it our way and the rest may go the highway?

well it's been a year and half since the "lotusknows" effort began. Ed was asking that we provide input to "help define future vision for the Notes/Domino products and how we take them to market" the response if you recall was overwhelming.

Nothing against Ed, I appreciate the opportunity to have a go. If you can remember back then, and compare to now, alot has been lost in translation since then...People have been screaming ideas at IBM with little effect.

As someone said to me a long time ago.. "it's like throwing pearls to swine"

I am not intented to blame all, of course. Some partners and some IBMers are doing their job well regarding solutions to real-life problems.

In addition, I am not claiming 'cut this bullshit'. There are market mechanisms that sells 'social software' or 'cloud' which are proven by current sales figures of Lotus Live and Lotus Connections.

The important thing is connecting and aligning right messages with right customers which we (as partners) and IBM (as organization) seems failed for this specific case.

I may be wrong, we'll see the feedbacks in time.

To answer one of these questions. If you still use Lotus Workflow then be aware that this product is not moving forward. It is as well alive as Lotus SmartSuite is.

For the rest of your comment. In my opinion customers sometimes just have wrong expectations about IBM. But as LCTY events are normally Business Partner driven there often is room for answering questions or discussing some topics that are unrelated to a sales pitch.

@1 I really hated reading your comment.

Not because it's untrue.

I might say it thus:

"Based on my experience with IBM (as an organization), they have not learned to listen carefully and they have no incentive TO ever learn."

Well this difference between IBM talking about things and customers asking other questions is not really new news.

In fact it is a scheme i have seen as long as i am in contact with IBM as a whole. And that contact is not only Lotus Domino/Notes but was AS/400, S36, Big Iron, DB2 in various flavours and yes OS/2 also.

And if this sounds a little bit disappointed. Well it is what it is.

Based on my experience with them they (as an organisation) have nether learned to listen carefully and they will never learn.

The above statement is not the thruth for some people like Ed Brill or Maureen Leland or Mary Beth Raven but for IBM globally it is the truth.